Posts Tagged ‘debate’

Debate entre experts em Ciencias e Religiao. Questao: Ciencia refuta Deus?

sexta-feira, junho 8th, 2018

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Nos, agnosticos da cosmovisao da Matrix/DNA, somos “indecisos” nesta questao. Para nos o problema todo esta’ na palavra “Deus”, “God”. Suspeitamos que o atual conhecimento cientifico de fato – sem as teorias dos trabalhadores das ciencias, conhecidos como “cientistas” – desaconselha a fe’ num tipo de Deus tal como e’ descrito na Biblia. E provavelmente todos os outros tipos de deuses descritos nos livros sagrados das outras religioes. Mas os nossos modelos e calculos nos levaram a suspeitar que existe uma especie de “superconsciencia” em outra dimensao alem da que podemos captar com nossos sensores e alem do que tem captado o conhecimento cientifico atual. Esta suspeita superconsciencia seria diferente de todas as descricoes de Deus, portanto evitamos denomina-la Deus ou por outro nome alegorico qualquer.

Esta suspeita surge principalmente de um calculo muito simples dentro dos nossos modelos:

Neste Universo existe, internamente, um sistema natural, que surgiu a 14 bilhoes de anos atras e vem evoluindo, no sentido de que ele surgiu no estado de extrema simplicidade e atraves da Historia Natural Universal tem ate’ agora se transformado no sentido de cada vez mais complexo. Varios outros indicios notados nos nossos modelos resultam na sugestao de que neste Universo esta’ ocorrendo um processo evolutivo pelo simples metodo genetico. Entao nos voltamos para observar a Natureza que conhecemos e procuramos alguma situacao onde um sistema surge em extrema simplicidade, evolui do simples para o mais complexo, e pelo metodo do processo genetico. Isto porque nossas conclusoes teoricas so’ se tornam reais teorias da cosmovisao se encontrar-mos na Natureza real um parametron Comprovado e conhecido por todos. A Teoria de Hawkings sobre uma hipotetica existencia de buracos negros nao passaria neste crivo, pois nao encontramos em nenhum outro lugar um parametron Comprovado real que nos avise que a Natureza e’ capaz de fazer tal objeto.

Encontramos uma situacao comprovada e conhecida por todos que se encaixa perfeitamente como parametro real: trata-se da fecundacao, gestacao e desenvolvimento de cada novo ser vivo. Eles surgem num estado de extrema simplicidade ( uma celula dentro de um ovo); eles evoluem dp mais simples para o mais complexo: e eles sao feitos pelo metodo genetico. O achado nao foi surpresa, pois como nao cremos em magicas sobrenaturais, e portanto este Universo nao poderia criar por magica informacoes que ele nao continha na sua origem, entao ele nao poderia ter inventado outro processo para criar coisas como sistemas vivos que nao fosse o mesmo processo pelo qual ele foi criado.

Encontrado o parametro real, comprovado que a Natureza pode fazer e realmente fez o que pressupoe a teoria, passamos ao estudo comparativo entre a historia do corpo vivo criado e a historia do sistema universal criado. Assim vamos projetando o que conhecemos da micro-historia visivel aqui e agora sobre a macro-historia nao visivel do passado, pressentida no presente mas tambem nao visivel no futuro; e fazemos o exercio contrario ou seja, projetando o que se conhece cientificamente do macrocosmo sobre este evento microcosmico. Assim vamos encontrando num as respostas que faltam mas estao no outro, o que ajudou-nos a aprimorar as duas narrativas destas historias.

Mas um detalhe fragrante salta ao0s olhos, o qual parece sr uma crucial diferenca: em certo momento ( dos 6 aos 8 meses de gestacao) o cerebro do ser vivo humano apresenta a propriedade da consciencia. Isto significa que na evolucao do sistema dentro deste Universo, esta propriedade surgiu nos seus 14 bilhoes de anos. Nao ha’ nenhuma dificuldade aqui porque estamos contando os dois tempos sob a perspectiva humana, entao o que e’ feito em 7 meses na micro-escala humana pode corresponder ao que e’ feito em 14 bilhoes de anos na macroescala do universo.

Mas.… sabemos que nao e’ cada novo cerebro recem formado humano que inventa pela primeira vez no mundo a propriedade da consciencia, porque sabemos que ela ja existia antes, na especie humana, que esta fora e alem do pequeno universo oval do feto. A consciencia ja existia desde o momento da fecundacao na heranca genetica recebida, portanto nos 6 meses  – desde as formas de celula inicial, morula, blastula, feto, e ate a de embriao – ela existiu no estado potencial, nao expressada. Em relacao a historia universal nao temos nenhuma evidencia ou pista para concluir se foi este universo que inventou pela primeira vez no mundo a consciencia, ou se ela ja existia antes e alem dele. mas esntao aplicamos o mesmo metodo de projetar o conhecido da micro-historia sobre seu espelho que ‘e a macro-historia e chegamos a nova teoria de que nestes 14 bilhoes de anos – desde a forma de sistema atomico, estelar, galactico, celula vegetal, e animal irracional – a consciencia esteve no estado potencial, sem ser expressada. E por conseguinte temos que transportar a fonte desta consciencia no fato observado aqui e agora como fonte para o fato existente mas ainda nebuloso da macro-historia, e chegamos a teoria de que a consciencia humana nao foi inventada dentro deste Universo, mas sim ja deve ter existido antes das origens e alem do Universo.

Entao o que denominamos como superconsciencia cosmica em nada se compara com as definicoes de deuses de todas as religioes conhecidas. Pelo que conhecemos da Ciencia humana – seus fatos comprovados – ela nao pode refutar esta teoria, muito pelo contrario, por ser uma teoria intrinsicamente naturalista, ela deveria aceitar como a mais provavel teoria que ela pode produzir sobre tal assunto. Ela ‘e mais consistente do que a teoria de que do nada veio tudo, pois nao existe aqui e agora nenhum parametro conhecido onde um Comprovado nada gera alguma coisa. O fato teorico que embasa a teoria do nada ‘e o resultado zero da energia do universo, mas isto feito equivocadamente, porque a existencia do sistema natural universal nao tem como essencia primeira a energia, ela veio encriptada como codigo em algo que sobra quando as energias se auto-anulam: a luz. Em outras palavras, seja como for, o reino alem deste universo nao nos enviou nenhuma energia, mas sim um a onda de luz, a qual, ao avancar, no seu atrito com a substancia especial que pode ser um eter ou a materia escura, produz a energia positiva, e na sua volta `a fonte, produz a energia negativa. As duas devem ser descartadas quando o universo, como qualquer ovo, com sua clara formada de galaxias fazendo o papel da placenta, e’ descartados ao nascer da criatura.

Vamos entao ao debate no video, e a seguir tentaremos assinalar e analizar cada ponto fundamental citado por ambos lados:               

DEBATE: Atheists vs Christians (Krauss + Shermer vs D’Souza + Hutchinson)

8:24 Lawrence Krauss (Atheist)

15:45 Ian Hutchinson (Christian)

23:34 Michael Shermer (Atheist)

31:02 Dinesh D’Souza (Christian)

 

Video Origens da Vida: Debate entre “Cristianismo x Darwinismo x Matrixismo

domingo, abril 30th, 2017

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Debate acontecendo na secao de comentarios de video no Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyhZcEY5PCQ&lc=z12sxpuigvrfw5esg23mw3wh4r2qfdwhi04.1493527632428355

Edward Payne Edward Payne – 04/29/2017

There are scientific laws that says information can never come from matter (soupy primordial water) and can never happen spontaneously, so evo. magic (poof life appeared) never happened, it is scientifically impossible.
As is life improving by millions of small mistakes (mutations) over millions of yrs. because mutations always take away genetic information and is never beneficial.And of course there is the fact that there has never been a fossil found that supports the evo theory not one transition fossil has ever been found and never will be found, thats a fact.
The theory is the religion of the dead and dying according to evo everything must die, even whatever it is in the process of making. It is a mass murderer, a serial killer on a never ending killing spree, nothing would ever satisfy it and it could never recognize perfection because it is always in the process of killing even whatever it is making.
What is seen in fossils and alive today are all fully formed creatures self sustaining and reproducing after their kind, the only improvement would be if evo could give them eternal life, but it cannot because it kills all its offspring. Who does that sound like, satan right, so satan and evolution are buddies and walk hand in hand looking for anyone to kill. But God sent His Son to destroy the works of evo and satan, that through Jesus no one has to die but all can enter into eternal life, it is one way or the other and by rejecting Jesus you automatically accept satan. That is why there are only three peoples on earth today.
Choose Jesus and receive eternal life, reject Jesus and suffer eternal death, where you will be alive but considered dead and you will be forgotten forever in a terrible place. But in Jesus you will receive life abundantly, eternally.
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Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli – 04/30/2017
You began talking about facts and, then, you jumped to non-facts, at least, no known facts by me and my ancestors. Keep what you can not prove as facts for yourself, we only accept known facts. Evolution is a fact that I can see at embryogenesis: shapes transforming into new shapes and getting complexity. I can see the enormous diversity of life at manny shapes and the differences in graduation of complexity, but, I couldn’t see how it happened. Searching the answer the only known fact I know – embryogenesis – at individual level is projected into the collective level of life an it fits in. Magical supernatural ghosts creating shapes one by one is not unknown fact by me neither by my grandfather, so, this hypothesis is out of question. I can bring embryogenesis over the table, so, please, bring on your supernatural fact over the table.
There are different theories of evolution and you know one, the Darwinian theory plus its Modern Synthesis or neo-Darwinism. I think the amount of fossils, the evidences for an evolving DNA, etc., strongly suggests a natural process of evolution, but not the neo-Darwinian theory. As you said, there are serious gaps. But another theory of evolution described as ” The Universal Matrix for All Natural Systems and Life’s Cycles”, or Matrix/DNA Theory, suggests strongly and rational explanations that fits these gaps, because it is a theory linking cosmological evolution and biological evolution in a unique logic lineage. The big mistake by neo-Darwinians and those believing in abiogenesis theory is that they are separating universal evolution into two blocks without any link between them.
Matrix/DNA, doing comparative anatomy between the so called ” non-living systems”, as atoms, astronomic systems, and living systems starting from the first cell, projected a drawing of the suspect evolutionary link and it is just this galaxy, but, also a different theoretical model than that accepted by modern astronomy. It happens that the mechanisms and processes found at this cosmological model fits well the Darwinian gaps at biological level. Now, I really bet for evolution. And I learned that there was no origins of life here, and so, cosmological embryogenesis with mutations and natural nanotechnology.
Your argument about evolution is the science of death is wrong from Matrix/DNA perspective. What matters is not the hardware of natural systems, but, so, the software running inside them. There is a unique universal natural system that was born at the Big Bang, and it has changing shapes till today. An atom or a galaxy are such your ancestor like a bacteria is. All these systems had a kind of universal matrix as template, like a genetic code, and DNA is merely its biological shape here and now. It never has died, it is 13,8 billion years old We see now that there was a purpose for this “universal evolution”. Like a human body reveals consciousness at 6 or 8 months old, this universal system used to reveal it at 13,8 billions years old. What is the problem? Merely a relativistic issue. We know that it is not each human brain that creates consciousness first time in the universe: there was consciousness at Earth before. it was encrypted at my genetics since the little big bang when the membrane’s spermatozoon exploded inside an ovule and my life began.
Finally, there is no evolution inside this egg-universe. What we are watching are merely steps of a reproductive process like we see at embryogenesis. it means that here is being reproduced by natural process the unknown thing that uses universes for its reproductions.
And like here must be there, this unknown thing already has consciousness, but it is not magical, everything here is natural. And probably, this unknown thing is not watching what we are doing, our sufferings, our claims, like a pregnant woman can not knows which are the problems of the genes building her baby.
You see: my world view is totally based on facts that I can see here and now, and can prove it. Do not tell me about supernatural mechanisms and processes because you can not show and prove them. Keep them to yourself, so, no problems with that. Cheers…
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mhammad alkhateeb – 5/5/2017 – 6 hours ago
Mocking creationists does not make you scientific, i have watched the whole video and you can not be sure about anything related to the beginning of life, there are a lot of assumptions that are not proven yet.

Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli – 5/5/2017 25 minutes ago

And the problem is bigger: all best fittest went extincts or are going to extinction. Where are the dinosaurs? The eagle of the sky, the whale of the ocean, the lion of the continent? Unique possible answer: is not the fittest that is selected and the environment does not selects… it must be something else, unknown yet. Only Matrix/DNA Theory has a plausible explanation here: the selector is the galactic Matrix/DNA.
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At the end of the day, Atheists and Scientists will have to receive this by faith; Atheists because, humanity, like, come on! who would deny its own existence! so they have to come up with something other than religion beliefs, so they hide themselves behind the curtains of Science, and Scientists because, well… They have nowhere else to go, lol; Yup! well, not so different from us Christians huh! Who would have thought! Let’s see who’s the delusional one here. Receive by faith that a big bang exploded into existence out of nothingness, and that nothingness created rocks and a hot soup in a rock created life form, and life form continued advancing through time and “evolving” into what we are today… In contrast to the Christian faith that the Bible (a Holy Book inspired by God himself) narrates in Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Science is a religion, thankfully for Atheists, Science is a religion of peace, so if you ever want to convert to Christianity and leave those irrational stories that something came from nothing, (contrary to Islam that the penalty for leaving such cult is death) and bunch of baloney then I invite you to follow Christ 😀 Or if you want to explore other “religions”, then do so! 😀 if you keep thinking there is nothing beyond this universe, and there is no God, no Spirits, no souls, no nothing, then, I advise you to continue thinking that the hot soup created all life and eventually yourself and everyone else around, then and just then, in that case I would also think this is a rational approach, But since I’m already Christian I can’t just leave my faith, I must continue 😀

Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli 5/5/2017 3 minutes ago

First, please, you need to prove scientifically there is a God and he is like you believe he is. Second, prove that someone human has talking or seeing this god. And that this human wrote a book called Bible. If you can not prove that, or can not show lots of real facts known scientifically that can be used as parameter and evidence, it is waste of time going ahead with your theory. “Scientists will have to receive this by faith; … They have nowhere else to go”. Nope. This is one theory but scientists has others theories to go on…” ” … a big bang exploded into existence out of nothingness, and that nothingness created rocks…” But,.. you own body had its first moment after a big bang, when exploded the spermatozoon’s membrane at the center of an ovule. So, besides the evidences pointing towards a cosmological beginning described by Big Bang Theory, we have here facing our eyes that nature do it, and through it nature develops a complex system like your body. What’s the fact, the natural parameter, for a magical god? ” … and a hot soup in a rock created life form…” Nope. There was no origins of life at Earth, but merely an evolutionary development of a universal system existing since the Big Bang. This system emits by radiation bits-information in shape of photons that entering the electrons of planetary atoms drive these atoms to biological combination. The evidence is that a unit of information of DNA ( a lateral base-pair of nucleotide) is equal the unit of information for galaxies and atoms. See the models… If you says that a rat is a living system, then, you need saying that galaxies and atoms (our simplest ancestors), are also living. ” … In contrast to the Christian faith that the Bible (a Holy Book inspired by God himself) narrates in Genesis…) Sorry, I have no time for reading mythology of foreign and ancient people with zero scientific knowledge. And I never saw nobody talking to any god, so, I can not believe it is possible. But you are free, believe what you want…
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Marwan Yafi 5/4/2017 – 1 day ago
Origin of Life – How Life Started on Earth: Creation by Allah, be exalted.

Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli – 25  seconds ago

A very bad engineer. Any human engineer can do a better job. Have you seem a beast eating a living kid in the jungle? What evil Allah…!
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just wanna learn about the origin of life n i get a 50 min long documentary about niggas talmbout minerals and crystals n shit
nature has to build the ovule, the amniotic liquid ( the hardware) and the placenta for inserting the software-program called DNA, before beginning the construction of a new baby. The minerals, rocks, water, etc., were the formation of the hardware for beginning life. The software came and was inserted into these materials. From where? Of course: from who was living at that time, it is surrounding us by all sides and is encrypted into our genetics as the ” junk DNA”: the Milk Way. See at my avatar above or my website how how it fits very well.
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And it just so happened that earth became perfectly round, just the precise size to inhabit life, and in the exact precise position from the Sun to inhabit life.

Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli – 2 hours ago

You are right, it was designed. Like babies are previously designed by parents. Since we discovered that the unit of information of our DNA is equal the unit of information of this whole galaxy. which means that this galaxy is our creator parent, we learned that biological systems (aka, life) was previously designed. If you want to know how and which was the process applied by Nature, see Matrix/DNA world view. Mother giraffe designed its babies too, but it did not applied any intelligence..
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Out of the millions of species in this world, we humans are the only ones that evolved into a super intellect being that is able to create and fabricate the world we see it now. Not one other species has involved into something intelligent. We are created in the likeness and image of God. That means we share attributes of God. We create, we strive for social connection, we are compassionate and we share love. Not all species share this. Evolution are signs of dominion of this world. We created the “Theory” of evolution because we can. Life was designed by our creator, an everlasting GOD, and not something that evolved out nothing. Evolution should be consider a religion, because, you’re believing into an idea or theory, out of blind faith. If evolution became a fact. Then religion wouldn’t exist because it would disprove everything the Bible in particular represents.

Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli – 5/5/17

Only from the brain of a human fetus or embryo 6 or 8 months old emerges consciousness. It does not emerges before the fetus shape. It means that the brain evolved from ancestors were not prepared for receiving or processing the information for consciousness. But, any human body or any brain is a system that came from less evolved systems, like bacteria, galaxies, atoms… There is a unique universal system under evolution, it gets different shapes like your body can be a fetus, a baby, an adult. This universal system is cosmological, then its time scale is astronomic. it does not matter that it takes 13,8 billion years for this universal system developing a brain able to the next shape, consciousness system. If you god is the thing that generates universes as egg and reproduces itself through this universal system, and if your god is a conscious being, ok, you ate right. It is everything natural process, no magics needed
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What if cells were there as soon as the Universe came to be? Is that completely impossible?

Louis Charles Morelli Louis Charles Morelli – 5/5/17

Cells have seven principal organelles which performs the same systemic function of seven kinds of astronomic bodies in the system called galaxy. These astronomic bodies performs functions like the seven layers and its electrons performs at an atom. And these seven electronic layers of atoms performs same functions as the seven different frequencies/vibrations of a wave of light as result of the radiations. This wave of light was emitted at the Big Bang. So, yes, not the cells, but its ancestors were there as soon the Universe came to be. That’s why the first moment of the existence of your own body mimics exactly the first moment of the Universe’s existence: the spermatozoon membrane of your father exploded in a kind of big bang at the center of an ovule… If you want see this whole universal history look for ” The Universal Matrix for all natural Systems and Life’s Cycles”
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The bible says we came from dust of the Earth but the key ingredient your missing.  Go back and read the bible, it says God breathed LIFE.  There is no evidence of Abiogenesis and there will never be.  God is LIFE.  Go play in your mud and play with ingredients, but God is the one you seek.

Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli –   5/5/17

Wrong. God said to me: ” If you want know Me, If you want to know how I think, look at my job, Nature. The art work reveals the mind of the artist.” So, if you want to be smart like did those ancient parasites that wrote the bible for not working hard looking Nature, do not invite me for doing that. I prefer studying Nature and the best method for doing it is the scientific method. I have learned lots more than you about how the generator of this universe thinks…
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I think this show is hogwash.  Earth was not formed this way at all.  Easiest way to know is by seeing there are no planets formed this way now.

Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli – 5/5/17

There is two ways for formation of a cell system: 1) symbiosis among micro-organelles as was made the first cell; 2) Then, the cells learned how to replicate themselves, this is the second method. But the stupid matter of this planet did not invented these two ways. They came from the cells’ ancestors, the galactic systems, which has planets as its elements. The Matrix/DNA Theory’s astronomical model discovered how was the first method, the symbyosis method, for formation of original galaxies. Now we are searching how is the modern process, how stellar or galactic systems learned to replicate themselves. You are right: Earth was not formed as suggested by the academic astronomical model.
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Come on now, don’t you know that we all came from some god-thingy that snapped his fingers and made all the life that we have today. I mean, this science stuff….who has the time to think about this?

Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli – 6 days ago

Those that has no time for listening people talking about ghosts and talking snakes…

Instrutivo Vídeo: Minhocas São a Causa de Agressivo Debate Entre Cientistas Religiosos e Ateus: Multicelularidade e Embriogenese

sexta-feira, maio 1st, 2015

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Os biólogos Paul Nelson ( liderando o grupo dos criacionistas em volta do Discovery Institute) e PZ Myers ( liderando os ateus em volta do blog Pharyngula)  num debate interessante sobre embriogenese de minhocas mas cuja verdadeira intenção e foco é o politico debate entre os cientistas e intelectuais que acreditam que a Vida é produto do Acaso e os que creem ser produto de um projeto inteligente. Quando eu tiver tempo volto para traduzir os debates, por enquanto indico os links abaixo:

Do lado criacionista:   

More on the White Space in Evolutionary Thinking: A Critic Responds to How to Build a Worm

Ann Gauger April 30, 2015 12:25 PM

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/04/the_white_space_1095671.html

E do lado materialista:

The wisdom of worms

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/05/01/the-wisdom-of-worms/#more-23829 

Debate no Youtube: How the Universe came from “Nothing”, Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss discuss

domingo, dezembro 30th, 2012

How the Universe came from “Nothing”, Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss discuss

https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=CXGyesfHzew

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TheMatrixDNA

TheMatrixDNADec – 30 – r:03 AM

Dawkins, like Darwin, had reduced the Universe into terrestrial events for analyzing biological history. They conclude by evolution and tried to identify its mechanisms. But… a microbe living inside a womb watching the embryogenese of a human fetus should conclude by evolution. We, outside the womb knows that evolution is not the ultimate event, it is “reproduction”. Amplifying our vision to the time/space of universal history leads us to see reproduction of Universes with another mechanisms.

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TheMatrixDNA

TheMatrixDNA 1 second ago

Universe is not magic,he can’t create new information from nothing. So, he only can make a new thing, system, by the same process he was made. He can’t invent from nothing new information for other kind of process. We are a new system, so, if we want to know how the Universe was made, we have the process by which we were made. Our body started with a Big Bang, explosion of spermatozoon from initial singularity. What’s was before our fecundation? Another thing like us, conscious, natural. So?

Ótimo Vídeo Informativo S/ Atual Conhecimento da Origem da Vida e Debate com Matrix/DNA

terça-feira, dezembro 4th, 2012

The Origin of Life – Abiogenesis – Dr. Jack Szostak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg

Um dos melhores vídeos informativos sôbre o atual conhecimento a respeito das origens da Vida. E no vídeo, a Matrix/DNA participa do debate nos comentários:

EVERY SCIENTIST, in every field, knows life has not been created with the actual gases present. Guys, the odds of amino acids lining up are effectively zero…why do you think they have moved to Multiverse to explain everything? They cant even explain the atoms cohesion without multiverse–forget life itself.

Its over people. Our universe shouldnt exist. The majority of humans have been right all along. We “see” design”. The Math now shows design. We were Created. Only fools remain in denial

Rizzy55 3 days ago

Rizzy55: Maybe you will have big surprises soon, if NASA confirms the cosmological model of Matrix/DNA Theory. This models shows an astronomical system in shape of horizontal nucleotides pair, performing the same functions of atoms. Then, life had a previous design, abiogenesis was merely a new cosmological embryogenesis taking the astronomical time and nature doing nanotechnology, as when she put a entire adult body inside a microscope chromosome. See the pictures at the Universal MatrixDNA

TheMatrixDNA 5:31 PM – Dec – 04 – 2012