Posts Tagged ‘evolution’

Humanos estão evoluindo ou nao? – Forum do Debate.Org

segunda-feira, fevereiro 20th, 2017


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Humans are still Evolving ?

Poste by: Pro

Em: 02/14/2017 – Category: Sciences

Now this debate will obviously have to begin with the pre supposition that Evolution is true and accurate, something I do not even believe to be an opinion at this point due to the massive amount of evidence backing it, but that is besides the point.

It is my belief that human beings are still evolving and are still going through a Darwanistic process of evolution, just changed due to our changes of the environment

Please if you are to join state that you accept the challenge and post your opening argument

1. No personal attacks or ad homs (attacking the person rather than the argument)

That’s it

I look forward to your reply


Posted by MatrixDNA –  fev/02/20/2017

Evolution is a natural real process but the Darwinian ( and even Neo Darwinism and the Modern Synthesis) interpretations are wrong or in fault. Earth has not created the process of Evolution, it is a universal process and Darwinian interpretation is only about biological evolution which is only about the last 3 billion years. So, for really understanding Evolution we need include Cosmological Evolution ( about the first 10 billion years) and its mechanisms, like thermodynamic entropy, etc.. In the hierarchy of natural systems, since this solar and galactic systems are above biological systems, these ones are being affected by those, and darwinian interpretation are not seeing them.

The human physical machine is not the most evolved natural system. Chimps were, but the most evolved till now are our ancestrals galactic systems. It was/is a perfect working mechanic machine. As our ancestral, its “DNA” is encrypted into our DNA ( the wrong called junk-DNA). And biological system is evolving/growing in the womb of this galaxy, in shape of the whole Earth biosphere, the final baby must be a reproductive system’s shape of this creator.

So, the natural tendency is to transform the whole biosphere into a perfect machine, described by Newtonian mechanisms. All species, included humans, are going to be pieces of this machine. Stupid pieces, like in the brave New World under the Big Brother.

But,… beyond this creator galaxy, there is the creator Universe. Hierarchically, the Universe affects the galaxy and of course, this biosphere. This universal influence has made changes in this reproductive process, big mutations, due new states of matter – the liquid state creating organic chemistry and a kind of light/plasma creating consciousness – two things that galaxies don’t have.

We were created by this immediate astronomic system for being eternally machines’ pieces, but, we can accept this destiny or we can evolve using consciousness. (See Matrix/DNA Evolution Theory)

Entre os Intelectuais dos Paises Ricos Continua o Acirrado Debate Entre Religiao x Evolucao. Veja Onde e Como

domingo, outubro 9th, 2016


E’ incrível, mas um video postado no Youtube já alcançou 470.000 posts! Quase 8 milhões de visitantes! Trata-se de uma mensagem televisiva feita pelo conhecido ” Science guy”, Bill Nye, que influenciou a geração dos anos 70-90 com um programa diário instruindo sobre temas científicos. Neste video ele diz que o ensino da religião aos jovens e’ prejudicial aos estados Unidos porque desvia a mente criativa que faz evoluir a ciência e tecnologia, e por isso, os USA estaria perdendo a corrida cientifica e tecnológica a países que não ensinam religiões, principalmente nas escolas. Ele afirma que a teoria da evolução esta cientificamente comprovada e e’ extremamente necessária para a mente cientifica desenvolver seu trabalho.

Como eu descobri uma teoria da evolução mais complexa do que a acadêmica, Darwiniana, e a qual me sugere que a mensagem do Bill Nye tambem contem elementos perniciosos `a educação dos jovens – os quais não existem na minha teoria – tento entrar no debate e deixar ali registrado meus dois centavos. Mas e’ claro, a minha teoria esta sugerindo que o mundo e’ algo muito diferente do que todos os bilhões de humanos jamais imaginaram, portanto, ao menos as velhas mentes já enraizadas nas crenças de visões de mundo diferentes nunca vão entender sequer uma palavra do que diz este alienígena. mesmo assim tenho que praticar e atuar a minha missão, jogando sementes ao ar na esperança de que alguma germine. Ja’ postei muitos posts nos anos passados neste video e inclusive aguentei longos debates com vários participantes, e de vez em quando volto ao video para ver como andam os comentários, e como sempre, não resisto a postar mais. Hoje me deparei com o ultimo comentário postado e logo publiquei minha resposta, copiada aqui a seguir:

Bill Nye: Creationism Is Not Appropriate For Children

Nicholas Christie-Blick – post at Out/09/2016
Reality check: All of the evidence supports the theory of evolution. All of it. And that is why actual scientists are persuaded that evolution is the correct explanation for the diversity of life and fossil record. Both statements – the reality of evolution and the universal support for this idea among those best positioned to hold an opinion – are easy to check. Read any of several summaries of evolution by reputable scientists at major institutions. Go to any search engine of the scientific literature. Consult any of the statements published by major scientific organizations in support of evolution. Now that we have established that evolution has nothing to do with atheism, attacks on atheists as the source of all that is perceived to be wrong with the world can be seen as nothing more than a rearguard action to preserve religious beliefs that are demonstrably not true. What is the value of beliefs that can be maintained only by lying, wild claims, demonization and bigotry? How is such behavior consistent with the promotion of Christian spirit?
Then, please, how the theory of evolution explains that a could blood machine for kill, called reptile, was transformed into a mammal? An animal that eats its own babies, why suddenly decided to make the strong and painful effort to keep the eggs in – instead quick putting the eggs out – till developing the pregnancy process?! Of course, such a female would be weakened and would not be selected by natural selection. Second: if hermaphroditism is thousands times more naturally and rationally good process for creatures, how and why some of them decided to divide its own body into two distant parts?! There are many questions alike that are not rationally answered by theory of evolution. I think it is non rational denying natural evolution, because evidences are everywhere. The problem, then, is with ” the human theory about natural evolution”. Of course, something very deep is wrong with this theory. The theory is not complete. So, teaching religion to children is wrong, but teaching a wrong or not complete theory as being the absolute truth and scientific, is wrong also. I have made a giant job of about 50 years, including 7 years isolated at Amazon jungle, only for the sake of searching the meaning of the existences of this world and life. Applying a different rational and logical method – comparative anatomy between living and non-living systems – and as final result, I got a different theory of evolution, which explains those questions above. But I never forget that it is still merely a “theory” under testing, so, I don’t believe in it, I will not say that it is “scientific”.because there is the risk that I should guiding children to a wrong way, prejudicing the evolution of their minds. The Darwinian modern theory of evolution is far away off the beam. It is about micro-biological evolution, while natural evolution is a universal, a macro process. So, the Darwinian three mechanisms VSI – Variation, Selection, Inheritance – says almost nothing about real universal evolution. I discovered it is missing at least four variables, which are forces acting just here, over biological systems. And these four missing variables changes completely the understanding and ideology produced by the academic theory. . I think it is a necessary and good effort to exorcise the fantasy of religions out from the human reasoning. But we do not have the knowledge of the real and ultimate truth, since we still does not know the whole natural universe. The academic theory of evolution is producing a bad world view because it is conservative of humans instincts inherited from animals, instead driving humans to its own transcendence out from human species. So, keep remembering that the theory of evolution is the modern way of humans seeing the universal natural process of evolution, which must be thousand times more complex than we what we know about it.
It’s too late for you Louis and you’ll never convince anyone that you know more than the worlds 3+ million biologists without a single credential in any field of science, you’ll never convince anybody that you know more than all palaeontologists because you don’t.  Be a good chap and keep your ancient magical beliefs to yourself.

Louis Charles Morelli Louis Charles Morelli – 1 second ago

3+ million of biologists today means a unique world view in a unique moment of time of human history – a world view that will be seeing as an ancient magical belief. All past world views are dead and this one will be also, so, 3+ million biologists will be cause of smiles for next generations. Usually do you forget it or you does not know the past human history, or, still, do you believe that the future will be different?! As I said above, I have no beliefs, neither in my actual provisory world view. But, I know that it is more logical and rational than yours theory.
Louis: My advice is unchanged. Start with a summary of evolution by someone with credentials. The theory of evolution doesn’t depend on whether those who know nothing about it understand it. Making ad hoc arguments in a vacuum, as you are, has no bearing on the actual science. And no. The theory of evolution has nothing to do with promoting anti-social behavior
Yes, Nicholas, the theory of evolution – and not the real natural phenomenon called evolution – is promoting anti-humanistic behavior. I think the biggest problem we have today against the ideal humanist social system is the genetic inheritance from animals related to the division of powers. In the jungle the whole animal system is shared into big predators, medium predators and preys. All human social systems created till now mimics the same animal wild rules: there is the aristocratic high class (big predators), the medium class ( medium predators) and the mass of people as the prey. The theory of evolution observed in the past and in the wild world is a true motive for continuing these animals instincts. And we need exorcize these instincts out from human genetics and psychology, before the planet exorcise itself from us. As we need exorcise religions from human reason. The problem is with the ideological values arising from this theory of evolution. It is used by big predators for justifying their behavior. And the problem is that this Darwinian turned on Modern Synthesis theory of evolution is wrong about the real meanings of natural evolution. I have observed several mechanisms, variables, that are missing in this theory, which change the final meaning and provides new kind of values, which is better for human species getting its transcendence, before being too later.
You said: Start with a summary of evolution by someone with credentials. The theory of evolution doesn’t depend on whether those who know nothing about it understand it.” But,… there is no human being with credentials as expert in natural evolution. The 10 billion years about the embryogenesis of biological evolution is totally unknown by biologists and humans in general. An alien can not know what is a biological system, or a human being if you don’t explains to him the 9 months of its embryogenesis and the prior causes that produced this embryogenesis. Evolution is a universal natural cosmological phenomena, Biological evolution is merely micro-evolution, a part of the whole.Or do you believe that the stupid matter of this lost planet created by magics evolution, first time in this universe?! Biological evolution, since the first organic organization of terrestrial atoms, is merely continuing cosmological evolution of a universal system that was a single atom, a single galaxy and a single biological cell. Galaxies are yours ancestors like reptiles and bacteria are. Darwin studied micro biological evolution. Modern Synthesis is about micro biological evolution. Then, there are lots of mechanisms, processes, acting over biological evolution, coming from cosmological evolution that no human being has grasped them. Maybe in Matrix/DNA Theory we had grasped some of them, and they change a lots what “the humans with credentials” does not know. One example. Maybe most of genes mutations that were selected were not produced by chance as they believe. At Matrix/DNA we are discovering that the new trait produced by lots of mutation already were existent in atomic and galactic systems. So, they were not mutation by chance, they were naturally produced as it happens in the reproduction process.
E meu comentario postado independente:
Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli – Out/09/2016
“Something living can’t come from something non-living”.
Yes, it did.
Yours mistake is about the word “living”. Since we are discovering that all life’s properties has their principles in atoms and galactic systems, it makes non sense saying that one is alive and the other is not. Universal evolution is under the same process of life’s cycle that produces the transformations of shapes of your body. You had the shapes of blastulae, fetus, embryo, child, etc. There is a universal natural system that began like a fecundation event at the Big Bang and it is evolving changing its shapes, as atomic system, astronomic system, cell system, plant and animal system, and the last one, conscious system. All them are the same unique system. So, galaxies are yours ancestors like reptiles and bacteria. So, in this Universe is occurring evolution which is the process applied for getting reproduction of the unknown thing that produced it. In this sense, evolution is an illusion; what matters is the final process – reproduction.
Outro post independent em Out/10/2016
Evotard Exterminator: ” … every last iota of science demonstrates that creatures ever reproduce their own kind.”
The very fact that among 8 billion humans there is no one exactly equal another, science demonstrates that creatures ever reproduce their own kind, but with a novelty bit of difference. It is the sum of these bits of difference at millions or billions years that results in new creatures species. Can’t you calculate the final results of a sum of new bits at long times?! If you say that the transformation of one species into another can not be result of mutations by chance (as the theory of evolution is saying it), then, we could agree. One sample: the building blocks of galactic systems contains the process of “eggs out” and “egs in”. Then, the theory of evolution believes that the transformation of reptiles (eggs out) into mammals (eggs in) began with a genetic mutation by chance, which was selected by adaptation, etc. But this transformation already was existing in this universe 10 billion years ago. So, the biological mutation was not by chance, it is a mechanism of all natural systems. But, if you say that the two species – reptiles and mammals – were previous intelligently designed, we can not agree. Because I know the building blocks of galaxies and I am seeing it as the cause of production of these two species, and there is no intelligence, applied in this creation. it was everything natural. If you say that the building blocks of galaxies were intelligent designed, we will not agree, because we are seeing who designed them: atoms systems. Galactic systems are merely evolution from the shape and properties of atoms systems. If you say that the atoms systems were intelligent designed, we will not agree. because we are seeing that atoms systems are the result of natural light waves spreading into dark matter. The seven frequencies/vibrations of a light wave became the seven electronic layers of atoms. If you say that the light wave produced at the Big Bang was the tool containing the code for life, we will agree. We can see all life’s properties resumed into those frequencies of a light wave. Bit if you say that the first light wave was the tool applied by God – so, everything here should be product of intelligent design – we will not agree because our calculations are suggesting that those light waves came from a ex-machine natural conscious systems without the use of intelligence. Everything was a natural process. Show to us yours calculations suggesting the opposite, that we will change our world view..

Gary BellGary Bell – 10/11/2016

A god that unforgivingly murders everything on the planet because of its own failures and then rebreeds the exact same flawed Homo sapiens through another round of family incest instead of beginning with dirt like it did the first time.  This is a profoundly stupid god that repeats its own mistakes and expects a different outcome, then it demands our love or it’ll burn and torture us forever and ever.
Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli – 10/11/2016
Obviously, the Bible narrative is a kind of Harry Potter’s world for infant minds. But you have a point, which was forgotten by Bill Nye’s theory of evolution. In this Universe, every new evolved system, develops under two phases. The first phase is when the eggs are put out and the offspring abandoned under predators, natural tragedies, etc. The second phase is when the system keeps the egg in and nurture the offspring till maturation. So, every natural system repeats the same mistakes, cycle by cycle, evolution is like the stupid god of that stupid book called bible. I discovered it when observing that it happened with biological system: from LUCA to reptiles there was the phase of egg out; with biological systems called mammals, began the phase of eggs in. But it happened with our ” non-living” ancestor also – the astronomical systems. We can see, clearly, in the model of the building blocks of galaxies the first phase of eggs out, and the second phase of eggs in. This cycle is a universal constant, then, it must happened with our oldest ancestors – the atomic systems. Now, at Earth, is arising a new shape of the universal system, called “consciousness”. So, consciousness is in the phase of eggs out. That’s the explanation why we humans – the carriers and genes of this new shape – are under tragedies, predators, etc. The good news is that the first phase is merely an “illusion”. We can see clearly at the evolution of astronomical systems and biological systems that, in reality, the eggs never were put out. This event of biological evolution is merely steps of a bigger process: reproduction And in the reproductive process is initially determined that eggs will generate a new being, so, at the end, we see that the eggs never left the system. So, evolution is not such stupid as I said in the beginning. Which means that, if there was a god applying the same process, he was not stupid also… It would be a god without the humans felling about love, suffering, etc
Nicholas Christie-Blick – out/14/2016
My #1 objection to religion is that it is so pernicious: the early indoctrination, the lying, manipulation, preying upon insecurities, bigotry, misogyny, sexual predation by clergy, financial scams, and lust for power. The entire edifice fails so thoroughly and in so many ways that it is inconceivable to me that there is any core reality worth preserving

Louis Charles MorelliLouis Charles Morelli – Out/14/2016

My curiosity about religion is how changed the strategy of non-rational predators by the strategy of preys’ mental manipulation by religion by humans predators. At the jungle – and I know it because I live in Amazon jungle by seven years – the big predator – like lions – wait at the hill while the preys are working, transforming grass into meat. The unique job of lions is keeping their territory from other predators. Now, the humans predators stands in the house of the church, drinking wine, air conditioning, waiting the preys working for a minimum wage, and at the Sunday morning the preys goes to church giving a slice of their earnings. But, for getting it, religion needs to teaching that slavery is approved by God, as it is written five times in the Bible. So, I try to imagine the first tribal big humans predators ( the most brute and strongest) around the fire in the cave talking histories to the smaller men, women, children. Of, course, they changed the real explanation for observed natural phenomena, lying while including elements in their explanations. And there are about 15.000 years that this ” culture” is being developed till today for keeping this social systems (communism, capitalism, monarchy, etc.) that mimics the rules of the jungle. So, the big predators, like lions at the land, sharks at the water, eagles at the air, are today the aristocratic “high” class; the medium predators, wolves, fox, etc., has their animal instincts encrypted at the genetic make up pf medium human class; and the preys became the bi mass of minimum wage. The supreme target of evolution here – I don’t believe it, but, my systemic models and investigation are suggesting it – is to develop a new shape of a universal natural system that was born with the Big Bang and today is consciousness. We, humans, are like genes building the fetus, or already embryo of consciousness. But, since that there is no supernatural power watching us, we can go to the wrong way, and the fetus can be aborted, of the transformations of this planet will destroy life here before. This animal inherited instinct of predators and preys are our threat and prejudice. We need fight for humans to exorcize this animalism out from our genetics and psychology. But religions ( and their predators, the churches as the modern cave) is a big problem against this exorcism. That’s is the world view called Matrix/DNA Theory and this is the cause we are against religions..
Hi Nicholas Christie-Blick! If the evidence for evolution is so simple, can you please give me a specific example of macro evolution instead of just referring me to a book? By the same line of thinking, I could ask you to read the Bible to understand my point of view. So can I please have a specific example? Also, variation within a species is mistaken often for intermediate forms from one animal kind to another by scientists to try to prove the theory of evolution. It is genetically impossible for one kind of animal to evolve into another kind of animal, no matter how much time you give it. The reason why I adopted this view is because the complexities of DNA are so abundant that it couldn’t have possible sprung up without the design from a highly intelligent Designer. Also, whenever scientists try to describe an open system when taking about the second law of thermodynamics, they usually refer to the sun. But the entire idea of an open or closed system when referring to entropy is flawed in reason anyways, so a closed system discussion would be irrelevant. So I agree that the sun has nothing to do with the fact that entropy effects everything. A closed system argument doesn’t make sense no matter what way you look at it. Additionally, mutations, by definition, are corrupting or destroying of information. Mutations cannot cause one species to evolve into another, and you cannot find one example of that in nature, or even in a lab. So, if you want me to read your book, I could just as well ask you to read scripture in the Bible. However, if you want to be specific, I can be specific as well, if you want to get into that debate. I would be glad to share with you why I believe the Bible, and only the Bible, is God’s word to mankind. I have done my research and am very well read on what you believe, but I still absolutely disagree with it.
Louis Charles Morelli – out/14/2016
It is not only Darwinian evolutionists, it is not only atheists, that think the bible and its world view is an absurd fair-tale for infant minds. There are dozens of others world view like The Matrix/DNA Theory which will criticize yours beliefs here:
You said:  “… can you please give me a specific example of macro evolution…”
Matrix/DNA: Macro-evolution is not you said before – the change of a biological specie into another. This still is micro-evolution, ot is merely biological evolution. But, the natural process of evolution was not created or invented by the stupid matter of this lost planet. There was evolution coming from the beginnings of this Universe, evolution is 13,8 billions years old, evolution is universal and this is macro-evolution. The gaps in Darwinian theory of evolution is due Darwin studied only micro-evolution, and about biological systems at Earth.
If you want to believe in Jesus Christ he said something that you are forgetting. At the New Testament I never read Jesus saying the word God, instead he said “the father” ( ok, I read it at my 10 years old maybe I don’t remember well). He look to the sky and said “father” then he look to the soil and said “sun”. Father creating a son does not needs magics neither supernatural beings, it is pure a genetic process. And this is what our theoretical models of atoms, galaxies, cells, consciousness, etc., are suggesting: this Universe is merely like a placenta, a cosmic egg, inside it is occurring a process of genetic reproduction. A process that began about 13,8 billions years ago, and the universal baby was atom system, than evolved to stellar system, to galaxies, to human beings and now is acquiring the shape of a pire conscious being. Everything natural, genetic process as should be the link between father and son.
So, there is no evolution inside this Universe. The evolution occurs, but it is illusion of the observer standing inside the Universe, like a microbe inside the embrionary sack would believe watching the embryogenesis of a baby. Evolution here is merely a sequence of steps inside a bigger process: reproduction. Maybe there are evolution ( something more simplest becoming more complex) outside the Universe, not here. This universal embrionary development we are watching from inside is evolution, only from a human perspective.
Second ( cont.):
Louis Charles Morelli – out/14/2016
 You said: “I could ask you to read the Bible”
Matrix/DNA: I read the Bible as teenager, as I read lots of other cultures’ mythology. Of course I couldn’t believe when the historic narrative of a people was mixed with fair-tale about supernatural beings. Why teenagers today reading the magic world of Harry Potter does not believe it is real? Because the collective unconscious has been matured and there are no adults saying it is real.
But, after 30 years of investigation about natural systems ( included seven years at Amazon jungle) my calculations suggested a new naturalist world view. My big surprise is when I saw that my theoretical picture of the state of the world before the origins of life here is just equal the picture designed as ” Adam and Even in the Paradise”, and the process by witch life began here is just equal the Fall in the Bible. My picture was about a building block of astronomical systems, which would becoming the building block of biological systems. This astronomical building block is a kind of machine described by Newtonian mechanics plus General relativity and Quantum Mechanics, but the machine has a soft cover of biological process. It is designed at my website. It is a natural, materialistic picture, but if you want to see it as metaphors, you see, clearly, the Genesis symbols, like a serpent swalling its own tail, the tree as an espiral, the apple as the external image, and the male and female functions, which you can call Adam and Eve. Since the system is a perfect machine, almost a perpetuum motor, it was the system “paradise”m Then, this “paradise” was attacked by entropy and its fragments are falling internally over planets surface, where they are lifting up as “biological systems”. It is the Fall.
I was very surprised because I knew the Bible is mythos, so, why the extreme coincidence? Later I discovered the reason: the astronomical building block is the building block of DNA which are at the center of humans’ neurons. Altered state of mind gets flashes of memory fro that old times when our ancestor was this galaxy and since those ancient visionaries did not know about galaxies and DNA, they thought about supernatural events.
That’s what yours bible is about. Delusion about the natural world interpreting obscure visions as supernatural elements.
As I said above, this Universe is merely a process of reproduction of the unknown natural thing that triggered the Big Bang. That thing is conscious because there are a fetus of consciousness here. Its relations with us are the same relations of a pregnant mother with the genes building her baby, which means, none. If you want to call the unknown thing as God, I have no problem with it, but it is natural, not magical. Like genes does not think like humans, humans does not think like the generator of this Universe. And there are no talks between genes and the pregnant mother. But… the narrative pf Genesis at the bible is ok, it is a metaphor for natural. It began with a visionary called Schimeon Ben Jochay, 5.000 years ago, long before the Jewish religion, as you can read at the Secret Doctrine.
Third answer to Hannah:
Louis Charles Morelli – Out/14/2016
” It is genetically impossible for one kind of animal to evolve into another kind of animal, no matter how much time you give it” Matrix/DNA: Atoms had evolved into another. Galaxies has evolved into another. There was two process for formation of galaxies, like there was two process for formation of cells. The first originals was formed by symbiosis, the later by self-reproduction, or division. So, biological systems can evolve into another biological system. Yours problem is that you does not know the ancestor of the DNA and the biological genetics. Go to my website and you will see it. The last non-biological ancestor was am electromagnetic/mechanic system which anatomy would be completely biological in the shape of a chimpanzee. So, like in human embryogenesis a initial blastula gets the shape of a fetus, the fetus a shape of embryo, the embryo a shape of a baby, at the biological embryogenesis the initial Archean, bacteria, gets the shapes of insets, reptiles, mammals, till arriving to the monkey ( or its cousin). But humans added this astronomical evolution with an ex-machine element which is consciousness. So, in a certain way, humans did not came from monkeys only. It is possible that yours “soul” is safe…. and will become like the generator of this Universe. So, a religion is not so bad. Bad is the bible, the Al Korhan, the Talmude, etc., religions. The human brain has no sensors and ability to grasp the right religion yet. Matrix/DNA has no metaphysics, everything must be natural.

Epigenetica: E a evolução dos passarinhos de Darwin

domingo, maio 3rd, 2015


Para ler:

Epigenetics and the Evolution of Darwin’s Finches