The debate over the origins of the Universe and of Life Continues Among the current theories.

Re: Theories – Origin of Life

http://www.biology-online.org/biology-forum/post-144164.html#p144164

Postby TheMatrixDNA » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:35 pm

scottie wrote: Continuing on with the problem ID has not addressed.

As I stated in my last post.

They are shying away from the obvious implications of what design means.

Design is always the product of a purpose the Designer has in mind

Comment by  Matrix/DNA Theory:

Ok.In my opinion,this is the most instructive thread in the Internet for those that are interested in the question of “theories about origin of life”. It seems to me that this thread is death, abandoned,and I can’t understand it because this question wouldn’t have an end till the day that scientifically someone prove how life has emerged. The normal behavior here, I think, should be everyone trying to reinforce his/her theory bringing on more evidences, while bringing on new evidences that deconstruct the other theories.
Then, this thread must have no end because everyday the news are showing new facts that can be used as positive or negative evidence to the current theories.
I had driven for a new theory of origins of life and even the universe, when I was living in Amazon jungle and observing the systems that composes that biosphere and inquiring how must be the state of the world, in its astronomic, atomic, and even the dimension of quantum fluctuations aspects, that has produced our kind of life. Of course, my goal now must be testing the whole theory against real facts. But I and the scientific enterprise has no the necessary tools for doing it just now. Then,what I can do with this theory? The same others are doing here: searching more thoughtful brains for doing a rational scrutiny of this theory, while showing the news about facts that are evidences in favor and showing evidences that I think, does not fit in another theories.

Introducing the people to a new big theory, which requires a change of his/her world vision is a difficult task. Maybe only high intellectuals individuals with open minds that are retired and has time for spent here, like Scottie, could invest attention in your theory and debating it with you. The fundamental requirement is that you can communicate it in a language understandable and that your theory makes same sense in the light of modern known facts. For instance, we had a poster here, Leopol, with two problems: poor Google translations from Russian, a lack of evidences and a world vision that is not tasteful. But it is not justice and intellectually productive rejecting Leopol’s theory, we must deal with the details giving him the opportunity to advocate his world vision till he can not resisting anymore for lack of positive evidences. same thing I think must be the reactions about my theory, called “The Universal Matrix/DNA of natural Systems and Life’s Cycles”.

I am reading the whole thread, it is a lot of stuff, 45 pages. When finishing everything I will begin from the first post again, selecting those that are interesting to my theory and deserves a reply, proposing discussions. I know that this means that I will post here almost another 45 pages, because each post is interesting and touches the roots of Matrix/DNA world vision. I don’t know if the moderator will permit it, but I will try because this is the right thing to do. But, then there are posts that can not wait the application of this method, it is irresistible a reply just now, like this post from Scottie.

I think there is a big difference about what “design” means when making comparison between the designs made by Scottie as an engineer and the designs that emerges in Nature. But we can see this difference only from the view point of another observer with another world vision. The way Scottie was educated for dealing with designs he can not understand that other things can do design without using a mind,a purpose. Let’s focus on the generation of a new baby’s giraffes. When mating, father and mother giraffes are doing same minded project of a design that will be real in the future? Or the future designed baby will be product of merely flow of natural laws? Could be possible that the flow of natural laws creates unpredictable complex designs? The phenomena of giraffes doing a new baby is not a proof that this is normal functioning in this world? Where is the mind behind this whole process? Where is the design while a female and a male genomes are fusing together inside an egg and during the whole process of gestation? I think that the design only appears outside the egg, ex-machine in relation to the egg. And the author of that design also are outside the egg, They are ex-machine in relation to the egg. They are natural construction by natural laws and they are not applying their minds for doing the design. Also the male and female giraffes has no purpose of doing the design that will emerges from their natural mating act.
Someone here has any problem with my proposition? I will consider that no, and will continue.
This biological phenomena of babies’ generation is the unique real fact known by everybody when a design appears in Nature. We know the causes, the authors, the process, the evolution of whole process.
My question is: why every current theory (exception of Matrix/DNA Theory) forgets this phenomena when trying to understand what is going on in the whole Universe? Why every author of every theory made by human beings ( exception of Matrix/DNA Theory) believes that the explanation of universe’s and life’s existences is better when applying human imagination creating images of theoretical universes instead cleaning up the action of human imagination and applying what we see here and now, as real, over the whole universe for getting those explanations?

If we try doing that, this universe will be merely a material structure in which, inside it, is occurring a process of reproduction, from something ex-machine. Every process of reproduction is a sum of small and gradual processes of evolution. The observer inside an egg will think that is watching evolution and really he is; but the observer outside the egg will know that the evolution is an illusion, a process inside something bigger, called “reproduction”.

The world inside an egg is a natural world, like the womb where the egg is located. If the universe is a natural world, why it should not be located inside a natural world, working, like the womb? Why people from TOE are imagining that babies giraffes are products of random processes filtered by natural selection exerted by the mother wombs’ giraffe? They are not… but their imagined universe is explained like that. Why people from ID are imagining that babies giraffes are products of previous design made by the mind of father and mother giraffes? They are not… but their imagined universe is explained like that. Why Matrix/DNA Theory is believing that babies giraffes are products from the normal chain of causes and effects through natural laws that are passing through the bodies of father and mother giraffes? It is and its universe is explained like that.

What we see in this universe is the evolution of a unique system that appeared in shape of atoms, has evolved to shape of galaxies and to shapes of living beings. Like inside an egg a first cell has passed through several shapes. The final shape of the contents of a fertilized human egg has consciousnesses, but it appears as the last shape, maybe after the birth, ex-machine in relation to the egg. In the whole history of this egg never had the action of intelligence neither randomness. Why people are imagining a Universe that works in other way?! In the same way, I think, the process inside the egg and in relation to the egg is purposeless. There is no goal of the matter inside the egg, neither the action of an outside agency, as believed by Scottie, driven the processes towards a design. Do you believe that molecules called genes has the conscious goal of making a design in the shape of a giraffe? Do you believe that the parents giraffes or another entity outside the egg is acting inside the egg, driving its matter towards a final design, in shape of a giraffe? I can’t believe in that. But, if you apply everything in the same way over the whole universe, based in the current proved facts we have about the universe, you get everything working like the real world we are experimenting just now. Them why rationally someone could refuse this theory? Some ideas? But please, let’s work with facts, evidences only, Not ideologies or psychological analyses of the authors of these theories.

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